Click here to view video of Murphy’s remarks.

WASHINGTON – During a U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on North Macedonia recently joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), U.S. Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), a member of the committee, on Wednesday questioned Ms. Kathryn Wheelbarger, Acting Assistant Secretary of State for International Security Affairs, on the work North Macedonia has done to counter Russian propaganda and disinformation. He also asked whether NATO focuses too much on military burden sharing as the means for participation in the organization.

“When Macedonia is spending money through the foreign ministry on countering propaganda and trying to set up capabilities to distill real information from false information, that doesn’t get counted towards their 2% quota. And so I think we … are gifting the Russians when we only think of your participation in NATO through the prism of how many planes and how many tanks and how many soldiers you are employing,” said Murphy.

Murphy went on to press Mr. Philip Reeker, Acting Assistance Secretary for the Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs, on President Trump’s position on the ongoing Brexit negotiations in the United Kingdom, and whether preserving the Good Friday Agreement is a precondition to a potential trade deal with the United Kingdom.

“The president, no doubt, has been a cheerleader for Britain’s departure from the European Union. I think that’s a grave mistake for the future of transatlantic security. While I was in Britain talking to them about this a few months ago, the President’s son wrote an op-ed for a major British newspaper that went so far as to say that the pending agreement before the British Parliament, which would have protected the Good Friday Agreement, was an abandonment of the referendum … But then just days after that, the Secretary of State was before our committee claiming that it was still the U.S. position to try to make sure that the peace process in Northern Ireland was protected,” said Murphy. “

Murphy added, “The president was very enthusiastic about a trade agreement while he was there as a reward for Britain’s departure from the European Union; have we laid down any conditions for that trade agreement, for instance that Brexit be done in a way that does not harm the Good Friday Agreement, the Belfast Agreement? Are we making it clear that we have some interests that we want to be protected throughout the Brexit process and might be a condition for them entering into negotiations with us on a trade agreement?”

Full transcript of Murphy’s exchanges with Wheelbarger and Reeker is below: 

MURPHY: “Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Two comments and try to squeeze in two questions. The first is to align myself with I think the direction of the comments of the Chairman. A few of us were at dinner some years ago with one of the key national leaders inside the NATO alliance, and that leader was making the case that had Georgia and Ukraine been inside NATO that we would be at war currently with Russia in two different countries. Others of us around the table were of the opinion that had Ukraine and Georgia been inside the alliance, that we would have sovereign and independent countries without Russian invasion or interference. And that is why many of us are very glad that this agreement is before us, and we can bring yet another country into the alliance. This took not just courage but incredible leadership. There were great obstacles on both sides of this agreement prior to it getting done, and I’m glad that we are recognizing both the leadership and courage inside of its accomplishment by moving this very quickly.

Ms. Wheelbarger, I wanted to talk you a little about how the work that Macedonia has done to counter Russian interference pairs with our debate about the expectations we have of NATO members to be in good standing. The fact of the matter is the tools Russia is using to try to do damage to the alliance are often are met with capabilities that are outside of the formal defense structure. And so when Macedonia is spending money through the foreign ministry on countering propaganda and trying to set up capabilities to distill real information from false information, that doesn’t get counted towards their two percent quota. And so I think we are, and I’ve made this case before in this Committee, but I think we generally are gifting the Russians when we only think of your participation in NATO through the prism of how many planes and how many tanks and how many soldiers you are employing. Isn’t the work that Macedonia has done here, successfully so far, an advertisement for why we might want to have a little bit broader understanding of what countries need to do in order to be members of NATO in good standing.”

WHEELBARGER: “Yes, most certainly a whole of government approaches to countering, whether it be Russia or any threat we might face as an alliance is key to the success of the alliance and to our collective security. I do think NATO does have a very thoughtful process in terms of what capabilities and what spending should count towards the two percent and the twenty percent, which was a very conscious, concerted effort on the part of NATO to have the money attached to the requirements for the actual defense of the collective security. With that being said, of course, everything the United States does, for example, in the information realm, whether it be through the State Department’s Global Engagement Center, other activities of our interagency, is important to our own security, but in a certain sense we we do have to draw a line somewhere in the sense of what will count for hard numbers and what won’t.”

MURPHY: “I agree, but we tend to over-obsess in our discussions about NATO with respect to this two percent number. Because I would also argue that, you know, if a country is making a concerted effort to break itself from energy dependence on Russia, which in no way counts toward the 2% standard, their decision and investment in doing so probably contributes much greater to their security and the collective security of the alliance than the decision to stand up, you know, another set of capabilities inside a relatively small military. So let me just leave that where it is.

Ambassador Reeker, I wanted while you’re here get the opportunity to talk to you about another important subject connected to our transatlantic alliance, and that is the very confusing position of this administration on the ongoing Brexit negotiations. The president, no doubt, has been a cheerleader for Britain’s departure from the European Union. I think that’s a grave mistake for the future of transatlantic security. While I was in Britain talking to them about this subject a few months ago, the president’s son wrote an op-ed for a major British newspaper that went so far as to say that the pending agreement before the Parliament, which would have protected the Good Friday Agreement, was an abandonment of the referendum. That was clearly believed to have been administration policy, given that no one there thinks the president’s son puts op-eds in major papers without authorization from the administration. But then just days after that, the Secretary of State was before our committee claiming that it was still the US position to try to make sure that the peace process in Northern Ireland was protected. The president was very enthusiastic about a trade agreement while he was there as a reward for Britain’s departure from the European Union; have we laid down any conditions for that trade agreement, for instance that Brexit be done in a way that does not harm the Good Friday Agreement, the Belfast Agreement? Are we making it clear that we have some interests that we want to be protected throughout the Brexit process and might be a condition for them entering into negotiations with us on a trade agreement?”

REEKER: “Thanks, Senator. I obviously stand with Secretary Pompeo and his recent remarks there. As you know, he has also been recently in the UK, and I joined him a couple weeks ago on a visit there prior to the state visit. As we have said, we support a Brexit outcome that maintains global economic and financial stability and minimizes disruption to the transatlantic commercial and security ties and preserves peace and stability in Northern Ireland. We’ve made that very clear, and that’s something we watch closely. We do stand ready to negotiate an ambitious free trade agreement with the United Kingdom as soon as they are ready to do so, as the president has said, and that such a free trade agreement between the United States and the UK can have tremendous benefit for both countries. We’ve also been very clear that we want to continue our strong partnership with the European Union as well.”

MURPHY: “Is the preservation of the Good Friday agreement a precondition for those negotiations on a free trade agreement?”

REEKER: “I think what we’ve said is that we are prepared to negotiate an ambitious free trade agreement. We haven’t established yet the full criteria there, but I think that remains and we have repeatedly said, preserving peace and stability in Northern Ireland is critical. The Good Friday Accords are vital there and, you know, there is a robust democratic system in the United Kingdom and they will make sovereign and democratic choices when it comes to Brexit.”

MURPHY: “Alright. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.”

 

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